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Black hole constant makes unexpected appearance
Find may be a coincidence or something more interesting
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WEIRD CONSTANTA constant akin to one that emerges when an object, such as a small black hole, orbits a massive rotating black hole (shown in an artist's rendition) shows up in a simple Newtonian system.Illustration by Don Davis

If you were orbiting a rotating black hole, you might be in for a wild ride of dizzying and seemingly unpredictable gyrations. Yet more than 40 years ago, a physicist found a mathematical constant that revealed regularity in that ride. Now a similar constant has been discovered in a mild-mannered Newtonian system, reports a paper in the Feb. 13 Physical Review Letters.

The findings could be mere coincidence, nothing more than a mathematical curiosity, comments astrophysicist Saul Teukolsky of Cornell University. But, he says, they could shed light on the mysterious conditions of rotating black holes, which are predicted to exist by Einstein’s general relativity equations.

Rotating black holes are thought to be the end point in the evolution of massive stars that collapse under their own gravity when their nuclear fuel is exhausted. For black holes with no electrical charge, the gravitational field depends on only mass and spin (hence the saying that “black holes have no hair”). Strangely, this simplicity holds true even though a rotating black hole doesn’t have perfect symmetry. Like any rotating object, a black hole becomes slightly flattened because of centrifugal forces (like Earth, which bulges at the equator).

That loss of symmetry in a massive rotating black hole should suggest that anything orbiting it, such as a neutron star, would behave erratically. Such orbits do appear chaotic, says physicist Clifford Will of Washington University in St. Louis, author of the new paper.

“The orbits go wild — they gyrate and spin, they’re incredibly complex. It’s fantastic,” Will says.

But in 1968, physicist Brandon Carter discovered a mathematical constant that showed the orbits are predictable.

“Black holes have this extra constant that restores the regularity of the orbits,” Teukolsky says. “It’s a mystery. Every other situation where we have these extra constants, we have symmetry. But there’s no symmetry for an orbiting black hole — that’s why it is regarded as a miracle.”

There’s no obvious reason why the Carter constant should emerge in the general-relativity description of spinning black holes, says Teukolsky. By looking for it in other places, scientists might learn more of the specialness of the conditions surrounding such black holes.

Now Will has found a Carter-like constant in a Newtonian system. The equations describing a third body orbiting two masses that are arranged just right yield a similar constant.

“I still don’t completely understand what it is telling us,” says Will, who says he was amazed at the appearance of the constant.

Other physicists also aren’t sure what specialness leads to the constant in both systems. 

“I have no idea — to me this is a mystery,” says Teukolsky, who worked on similar questions as part of his Ph.D. thesis in the 1970s. “I’m still baffled.”

Will is still pushing the pencil, adding higher-order terms to the equations. He says that the constant disappears when he adds the mathematical terms for frame-dragging, the ability of a rotating body to drag spacetime around it, akin to the swirling exhibited around a spoon stirring a bowl of molasses. However, adding the next order of terms brings the constant back, Will says.

“It’s mathematically intriguing,” says E. Sterl Phinney of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. Similar work was published in 2003 by English astrophysicist Donald Lynden-Bell, Phinney says. “I don’t know what it means, or that it has deep meaning.”


Found in: Atom & Cosmos and Matter & Energy
Comments 16
  • Physically the discussion about "black holes" is a nonsense.
    The myth about black holes was born in 1795 when Pierre Simon Laplace has calculated the level of gravity under which particles of light, having weight, must return on luminary.
    However, it is known from experiments that quanta of electromagnetic field have not gravitational mass so it can not participate in gravitational interaction, where force is defined as

    F = gamma*m1*m2/R^2

    and if m1=0 or m2=0, F=0 identically

    So "black holes" do not exist in principal.
    The light disobey the law of gravitation.
    "Gavilensing", which ostensibly is deflection of light under the action of gravitation, indeed exists on other scale and is caused by change of optical density of vacuum (the aether).
    See details in FAQ [Link was removed]
    Karim Khaidarov, Bourabai Research
    [Link was removed]
    Karim Khaidarov Karim Khaidarov
    Feb. 28, 2009 at 2:37am
  • Attractive force is not!

    Space is not expanding!

    Space is not kaareudu!

    Concentrations of energy explode!

    Concentrations of energy are expanding!

    In the energy density becomes less high-density enegriaksi!

    they also radiate energy density is decreasing!


    Black holes explode or laajenevbat and emitting hot / high-density particles!

    What kuumempia / frequent particles, the smaller the outer surface. The less they will lose their energy and the less they transfer the kinetic energy of atoms songs ytimiin!


    all based on the pressure variation!

    Remember to external pressure and internal pressure!

    Tracks overshadowed space! Also remember that!

    Expanding the songs radiate energy!

    Expanding the songs are also able to absorb the energy!

    Earth can absorb a little fireball!

    Comet to the earth emittoimaan a lot of energy!




    !!!38!!! » GRAVITATION*
    GRAVITATION*
    1. The surface of the expanding globe pushes us away from the centre of the globe in the same relation as we and everything else expand.

    2. Energy flows as waves between the atomcores of the globe and the expanding eneregybundles in these waves get hits towards themselves from the from the energybundles that open up from the atomcores. That is why they open up their energy towards the atomcores and move this way their kinetic energy to the expanding atomcores.

    3. There comes energywaves also from the space and these waves have energybundles that have had interaction with eachother by the energywaves that open up from themselves. From these energywaves that open up they have received themselves energyfields at the same principle than the centers of the galaxies have received energyfiels around them from the stars. So the stars have arised from the energywaves that come from the giant energy concentraions of the galaxy centres and can be assumed to be particles of a substance of larger size. This way the energybundles comimg from the space move their kinetic energy more towards the atomcores of the globe than the energybundles that move between the atomcores of the globe do.

    4. When one remembers that for example the energywaves opening up from the globe have interaction with the energywaves coming towards the globe, one can easily understand this theory. In other words to say, the energybundles that push themselves away from the globe clean / absorb with themselves the opening energywaves coming from the energybundles that move towards the globe. Now the energybundles moving towards the globe expand without pushing themselves away from each other. That is why a larger amount of them move towards the globe than would have moved if the globe did not open up energy as waves away from itself.

    The external pressure towards the orb is so based on what kind of energywaves the orb itself opens up away from itself, because the energywaves opening away make the energy in a way to bend towards the orb.

    The interior pressure pushing away from the orb is based on how massive small energybundles the piece itself opens up away from itself.

    The smaller energybundles are, the less they get hits from the expanding energywaves of the atomcores. The massiver and the smaller energybundles the orb itself opens up, the less they have interaction with the atomcores of the pieces nearby the orb and the less they move their kinetic energy towards them.

    Simply it does not exist any so called drawing force. That is why it is unnecessary to even try to make an explanation how the so called drawing force would transfer.


    Weightless space*
    Why don´t we feel acceleration away from the globe when we are in a spacestage circulating the globe?

    One could think, that inside a spacestage that expands three-dimentionally one should feel escalating push away from the globe? One should feel it in the same way as in the surface of the globe, because also a spacestage pushes itself away from the globe with escalating speed.

    The globe expands three-dimentionally and opens up energywaves. The energybundles in the waves go between the expanding atomcores through the stage and transfer their kinetic energy smoothly to the whole stage and to the people inside the stage. This is how the stage expands around the people inside the stage at the same time as it pushes itself away from the globe with escalating speed.

    Behind the globe through the sides of the globe there comes energywaves towards the objects that exist on a orbit of the globe. That´s how the effect of energy coming outwards the the globe and heading towards the globe reverses the further we go from the globe.

    The further we go from the globe, the more we can see about the globe. The furher we go, the more energy comes towards the object from the globe. When the shuttle reaches the orbit, it has also reached its escapespeed. After that the speed of its atomcores accelerate sufficiently with the help of the energybudles coming from the globe.

    That is why on a spacestage that circulates the globe we experience the weightless space where people flow.


    [Link was removed]


    .
    change of pressure change of pressure
    Feb. 28, 2009 at 4:40am
  • Space dont curve!

    You can believe, there is some angel, but you cant proof that, because you cant see or heard or taste or feel or smell angel!

    You can believe there is expanding space, but you cant proof that, because you cant see or heard or taste or feel or smell space!

    Scientific theories cant be proved mathematically, there is some magic space who expand and curve!

    Scientific theories can prove, energy was earlier/before very density!

    With time, that very density energy open up/expanding and now it is not so density!

    That same thing happend all a time for energy who is inside atoms nucleus!

    Dont be afraid, even you expanding all a time!

    Atoms expanding all a time and emit expanding energy who have a nature of electrons andparticle who also expanding and emit expanding energy!


    density, compactness, tightness, thickness of Energy changing in space who dont change!

    change of pressure change of pressure
    Feb. 28, 2009 at 4:45am
  • Karim Khaidarov: I thought we disproved the Luminiferous Aether right around the time that we 'proved' Special Relativity?
    Sven G. Sven G.
    Feb. 28, 2009 at 3:38pm
  • Lets take a look how black hole eat star energy with out gravity!

    [Link was removed]

    This is important, when you try to understund onesimpleprinciple!

    [Link was removed]
    change of pressure change of pressure
    Mar. 1, 2009 at 11:24am
  • Black holes*
    The Interaction / The Black Holes

    "How do the orbs interact with each other?

    They open up energywaves, by which they interact with each other.

    The less the orb has exterior surface, the less it interacts with other pieces. Also the density of energy matters as well.

    In a energy concentration there can be a lot of energy, although it would have just a little exterior surface in relation to other orbs.

    The denser the energy in an orb is, the less it has exterior surface in relation to the quantity of energy.

    The less exterior surface, the slower the energy opens up away from the orb and the less it interacts with other orbs.

    The denser the energy of a piece is, the more efficient it stops to itself for example the neutrinos coming from the stars and also the less there comes neutrinos away from the piece.

    There woun´t come any neutrinos of the stars from the direction of a black hole, because they stop themselves to a black hole.

    However, towards the black hole there move neutrinos all the time and they expand and open up energywaves, while transfering their kinetic energy with them to the orbs.

    From the pieces that move near the black hole loose more neutrinos from the side that it away from the black hole. This is how a certain exterior pressure is formed around the black hole.

    The closer to the black hole the piece is, the less energybundles come from backside of the black holes and the stronger the exterior pressure is.

    When one understands that all the energy concentrations expand and open up energywaves that have the nature of expanding energyconcentration, one can undestand that the black hole does not draw other pieces towards itself. It devours all the other pieces, because it expands and pushes pieces that locate nearby away from itself slower than the pieces and the black hole itsel do expand.

    However, some of the black holes are in a way in a diet. They push the gas that locates nearby away from themselves faster than they expand.

    Someone may wonder, why the black hole finally begins to reject the pieces that approach the black hole faster than the black hole and the piece themselves expand. It is based on a fact, that allthough the black hole opens up slowly its energy, do these dense energywaves have large energic particles, which also transfer their kinetic energy with energywaves opening up from themselves towards the expanding atomcores of other orbs.

    The modern physics does not understand these large energic particles. According to my theory, the speed of these large energic particles has accelerated just because of the fact, that they also do expand and open up energywaves by which they can make the large energic particles in front of them to speed up all the time.Their speed accelerates slower than the speed of the photons. Correspondingly their speed slows down slower than the photons speed when they move for example towards the sun. The speed of a ship accelerates slower than the speed of a boat. The speed of the ship also slows down slower than the speed of a boat.

    This way it is easy to understand how the expanding star that pushes itself away from the expanding black hole explodes a lot of its energy towards the black hole. Those opening and expanding energybudles that come from the expanding black hole make the expanding atoms of a star explode faster than normally. It achieves an illusion that the black hole absorbs with some kind of gravitation from a star the mass of a star towards itself.

    In fact, the energy coming from the black hole makes the expanding star to explode its energy much stronger than normally. With this energy that explodes towards the black hole it pushes itself away from the expanding black hole in a curved orbit."
    change of pressure change of pressure
    Mar. 1, 2009 at 11:27am
  • I understand why no one has bothered to reply to this...stuff. One try - if the black hole is nonsense, then what is causing the suns near the center of the galaxy to rotate around the galactic centre so quickly? Indeed, why are they rotating around the center at all, since the bulk of the galactic material, i.e. the mass, is outside the centre? One would suppose that the suns would vacate the galactic centre and head for the suburbs, in some sense. You cannot get enough dark anything in the centre to cause this effect.
    brian paterson brian paterson
    Mar. 2, 2009 at 10:09am
  • Something has been bothering me for a long time. Every time I see an image of a black hole, it looks like a spinning funnel sitting out in space. If i were to fly my spaceship and stare at the mouth of a black hole head on, it would look like a big circle. Now if i were to fly around to the side, I would expect to see a tube shooting off into the depths of space. I know most of this is an artists rendition but can someone tell me whats really going on?
    Daniel DiMartino Daniel DiMartino
    Mar. 4, 2009 at 1:08am
  • In responsee to DiMartino: Remember, the artists rendition is a 2-dimensional (D) rendition of a 3-D graph of the warping of the 4-D space-time continuum - that is of course, the 3 linear dimensions of normal space and one dimension that is the product of the speed of light and the local time scale which has the units of meters, if you will. There is no funnel. In my experience, there is no sane individual who can visualize the warped space-time around any massive object, let alone the gravity pit near a black hole. Two major concepts appear to be active today (ignoring those with limiting belief systems): 1) the black hole is an infinitely dense abstraction filling an infinitely small spot, or 2) an arbitrarily thick shell of mass whose outer diameter is just equal to the diameter of the black holes event horizon.

    Leonardo
    Leonard Ochs Leonard Ochs
    Mar. 8, 2009 at 2:13pm
  • >> Something has been bothering me for a long time. Every time I see an image of a black hole, it looks like a spinning funnel sitting out in space. If i were to fly my spaceship and stare at the mouth of a black hole head on, it would look like a big circle. Now if i were to fly around to the side, I would expect to see a tube shooting off into the depths of space. I know most of this is an artists rendition but can someone tell me whats really going on?

    ---

    This is a great question, and one I've thought about, but my answer is just a guess. We assume that the black hole isn't a sphere from the outside, but a thin disk. From above, you'd see a black disc surrounded by a gravitational lensing of stars, like a circular halo. But from the side, you'd see nothing! Once in the black hole, however, space would extend into the funnel shape. The funnel shape evolves as you travel into it. Does that help??
    Troopy Troopy
    May. 4, 2009 at 1:06pm
  • Genetic disorders are often caused by sperm DNA that has double strand breaks, copy number variations, point mutations and imprinting mutations that have to do with advancing paternal age. Men need to know about their biological clock and father babies in their 20s and very early



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  • Will, C.M. 2009. Carter-like constants of the motion in Newtonian gravity and electrodynamics. Physical Review Letters 102:061101. [Go to]
  • Lynden-Bell, D. 2003. A simple derivation and interpretation of the third integral in Stellar Dynamics. Monthly Notice of the Royal Astronomical Society 338:208-210
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